Breaking Free from Rejection: A Journey to Healing with Dr. Gary Lawrence
To reach Dr. Lawrence: https://rejectionjunkies.com/
Dr. Gary Lawrence joins Sean to explore the profound impact of rejection and emotional turmoil on individuals and relationships. With a focus on identifying, isolating, and eliminating the root causes of these issues, Dr. Lawrence shares his personal journey through marital struggles and how he transformed his life and marriage by addressing deep-seated emotional patterns. The conversation delves into how early childhood experiences shape our emotional responses and relationships, emphasizing that many adults carry unresolved rejection patterns into their marriages. Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own experiences with rejection and consider the importance of healing these wounds for healthier relationships. This insightful dialogue offers practical guidance and hope for anyone grappling with emotional struggles, underscoring the healing power of understanding and addressing one's inner conflicts.
Transcript
Well, Sean mice here with Dr.
Sean:Gary Lawrence.
Sean:And boy, before I introduce you, I just want to say how thankful I am and how honored I am that you'll be on my show here today.
Sean:Dr.
Sean:Lawrence.
Gary:Oh, it's a joy to be here, Sean.
Gary:My goodness, it's an honor.
Gary:It's a pleasure to meet you, my friend.
Sean:Well, well, same here.
Sean:Dr.
Sean:Gary Lawrence and his wife Sylvia, they've spent their lives.
Sean:You've spent your life successfully leading folks to identify, isolate, and eliminate the root cause of the emotional turmoil in their lives.
Sean:And I'll tell you this.
Sean:Let me break from the introduction.
Sean:I'm really excited to hear personally, and I want to speak to those of you that follow me and you followed me for a long time.
Sean:I'm personally excited about what Dr.
Sean:Lawrence is going to share.
Sean:And for any of you that have struggled with emotional turmoil or you've had spiritual turmoil or mental turmoil, I think you're going to be touched by what you hear today.
Sean:So Dr.
Sean:Lawrence and Sylvia bring their knowledge, experience and passion individuals and couples to help them resolve personal, marital, family and parenting conflicts.
Sean:And we know you specialize in breaking down the damaging effects of rejection and the way that that trauma manifests throughout all phases of life.
Sean:And so let's do this.
Sean:Let's go ahead and get started.
Sean:By the way, folks, if you just want to check out Dr.
Sean:Lawrence, he's@rejection junkies.com.
Sean:and let me say this.
Sean:I am, I'm just, I'm really delighted to be able to share with you or for you to share with us about, about that.
Sean:Let me ask you this.
Sean:If it be okay if I can just jump right in?
Sean:You know, the world identifies so many different mental struggles as this syndrome and this syndrome.
Sean:And, you know, a lot of times married couples, they have their own individual wounds and they intersect and it causes trouble.
Sean:You.
Sean:You've identified this, this, this rejection issue here, right?
Sean:Boy, when I hear about it, I think, wow, that's so much that relates to shame and guilt and.
Sean:And then we see Christ as our identity.
Sean:Tell me, tell me your approach to.
Sean:How do you, how do you approach this?
Gary:Well, let me start back where my wife and I almost got divorced.
Gary:How's that?
Sean:That sounds.
Gary:Yeah, we're both saved people.
Gary:We love the Lord.
Gary:We met in Bible college.
Gary:And I'll never forget, I said to my roommate, I said, bob, you see that beautiful brunette girl over there?
Gary:He said, yeah, what about her?
Gary:I said, I'm going to ask her out for a date.
Gary:I said, probably.
Gary:I end up Marrying her, he just kind of laughed about it, you know.
Gary:Well, from that night on, four months later, we got married.
Gary:Now that was 57 years ago, Sean.
Gary:Okay?
Gary:And when we got married, the girl I married isn't the girl I was dating.
Gary:And the man that she married was not the man that she had been dating.
Gary:It's like we switched bodies or something happened, you know, and we were just rejecting each other.
Gary:She would not talk, she couldn't show vaccine.
Gary:Our sex life was, was horrendous.
Gary:Our ability to communicate was non existent.
Gary:But we were saved people.
Gary:We were so busy living for the Lord and we continued in our misery.
Gary:And so we were missionaries to Canada.
Gary: I remember back in: Gary:Sean I didn't know a person, but I did know how to win souls.
Gary:So I just started out knocking doors and we rented an incalusive church building and you know, in six weeks we had 170 people in our congregation.
Gary:Now that's pretty fast growth from 0 to 170 in six weeks.
Gary:Well, and then in three years we bought five acres of land and built a 450 seat auditorium and I had a weekly television broadcast.
Gary:And then we built an educational facility for 125 students for our private school, the Manitoba Christian Schools.
Gary:So my ministry was being greatly blessed of God.
Gary:My marriage was in shambles and when I was on deputation to raise support to go to Canada, I met a lot of pastors, their wives, who were miserable behind the scenes because they were in so much conflict.
Gary:And of course the stress of all the families in the church didn't calm them down at all, just added to the chaos.
Gary:But anyway, Sylvia had come to the point where she was so passive, so withdrawn, so quiet, she decided she desired the best thing to do for her was to leave me and leave the two boys with me because at least I could provide for them financially.
Gary:And here's what sad Shawn.
Gary:My first response was, oh, what are people in the church going to think about me?
Gary:I'm their leader, I'm their pastor.
Gary:I'm the all wise one, right?
Gary:And so I was more concerned about my precious reputation than I was concerned about the needs mentally and emotionally that my wife had.
Gary:And so I said, Sylvia, if you don't leave me, I promise you, if we believe the word of God has all the answers, I'm going to get into the Bible and I'm going to find out what it is about us that make us reject each other so badly.
Gary:Please don't leave me at least for a couple of months.
Gary:Give me time to get into the Word.
Gary:And so I did.
Gary:I got into the Word and I started studying about people who'd rejected each other in the scriptures and how.
Gary:How God's saints handled rejection and anger.
Gary:And I came across Hebrews chapter 12, verse 15.
Gary:It goes like this.
Gary:I'm sorry, let me read this.
Gary:Looking diligently, seek diligently, very earnestly, lest any person misses out on the grace of God.
Gary:Lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you and thereby many be defiled.
Gary:And I looked at those two words, trouble you and defile many.
Gary:Well, there was so much defilement in my background.
Gary:I was raised in a non Christian home.
Gary:Both my parents were alcoholics.
Gary:My dad was always out having affairs.
Gary:My mother was having affairs.
Gary:A lot of anger, physical abuse, verbal abuse and emotional abuse.
Gary:Well, I handled my rejection by becoming a survivor.
Gary:I fought back.
Gary:I will not take this and I'll never forget.
Gary:Shawn.
Gary:When I was 16 years old, I took my last abuse and I hit my father in the chest and knock him through bedroom window.
Gary:And I ran out the back door and I never went home.
Gary:And I was a very angry, bitter, revengeful human being.
Gary:Now my wife, I was introduced to her abuse three months after we got married.
Gary:I was preaching one Sunday and I wasn't supposed to come home till Monday.
Gary:But you know, I was 22 years old and a new husband.
Gary:I want to get home to a wife.
Gary:And so I did.
Gary:I got home about midnight and fixed myself something to eat, took a shower.
Gary:She was already in bed and asleep.
Gary:And so I got in bed and I hugged her and began to caress her.
Gary:And Sean, she literally jumped out of bed so fast she slammed her head against the wall and fell to the floor.
Gary:And for the next four hours she had her knees up to her chest with her arms around her knees saying, please don't touch me like that.
Gary:My daddy told me not to ever let another man touch me like he did.
Gary:Please don't tell my daddy what you're doing.
Gary:That was my introduction to her sexual abuse three months after we got married.
Gary:Now here we are in Bible college studying for the ministry, getting ready to go out and win the world to Christ.
Gary:But already we had severe emotional conflicts.
Gary:Well, did you know that's true?
Gary:Most of the human race.
Gary:By age 8, 80% of emotional patterns are formed.
Gary:And by age 18, 100 of our self images form.
Gary:Okay, excuse me, I hope you can edit this call.
Gary:Excuse me, Sean.
Gary:So anyway, let me say that again by age 8, 80% of our emotional patterns are formed.
Gary:By age 18, 100 of our self image is formed.
Gary:And I'll never forget, I was counseling a retired medical professional and his wife, he was 80 years old and she was about 76.
Gary:They'd been married 50 some years.
Gary:And as soon as he heard me say, by age 8, 80% of our emotional patterns are formed, he said, well, Dr.
Gary:G, what you're telling me is I'm an 80 year old 8 year old.
Gary:I said, yeah, that's true.
Gary:And his wife leaned over and patted him on the leg, said, see, sweetheart, I told you, you act like a little boy.
Gary:Some of you heard that phrase, the child within us.
Sean:Yeah.
Gary:The truth is every adult has a child still living in them.
Gary:Okay?
Gary:Now, by age 18, 100 of our self image is formed.
Gary:Then we go into our 20s and our 30s and our 40s.
Gary:Well, we get a little more education, we learn how to make money, we get married, we start having kids.
Gary:But all the negative and positive emotional patterns still control us.
Gary:That's why I titled my book Rejection Junkies.
Gary:And what's sad is many, many Christian people are unconsciously addicted to the negative emotional rejection patterns that were built into them in the first eight years of their life.
Gary:Okay, now, now you said something they introduced to me, you said something about mental and emotional turmoil and spiritual conflicts.
Gary:Well, if you're a born again child of God, you cannot have any spiritual conflicts.
Gary:Now let me explain.
Gary:Sean, have you accepted Jesus Christ as your savior?
Gary:Yes.
Gary:Sure.
Gary:Is the Holy Spirit perfect?
Gary:Is the Holy Spirit perfect?
Sean:Holy Spirit's perfect.
Gary:Absolutely.
Gary:So when you got saved, did you receive the Holy Spirit?
Sean:Sure did.
Sean:I believe I did.
Sean:I have him now for sure.
Gary:Well, sure you did.
Gary:Absolutely.
Gary:Okay.
Gary:Hereby know we that we dwell in him and he and us, because he has given us of his spirit.
Gary:Right.
Gary:Okay.
Gary:So if the Holy Spirit dwells in you and the Holy Spirit is perfect, then spiritually you are what?
Gary:Go ahead, don't be afraid.
Gary:There you are.
Gary:So you can't have spiritual conflict.
Gary:Where is the conflict then?
Gary:Well, man was created in God's image.
Gary:God, Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
Gary:So we are man the body, man the soul and man the spirit.
Gary:When we get saved, the spirit is at peace with God.
Gary:We are now alive in Christ.
Gary:Would you agree?
Sean:Yeah.
Gary:So if the spirit is perfect, where's the conflict?
Gary:It's in the soul.
Gary:The soul is the residence of three elements.
Gary:The soul is our mind.
Gary:That's what we know to be true.
Gary:The soul is Our emotions.
Gary:That's what we feel to be true.
Gary:The soul is our will, our ability to respond to life circumstances.
Gary:Now, when the soul is at conflict with the mind and emotions, then our ability to respond to life's circumstances is hindered.
Gary:Okay?
Gary:So instead of having peace and joy.
Gary:Love, love, joy, peace, gentleness, goodness, faith, the fruits of the spirit.
Gary:Well, we have anger, we have fear, we have feelings of insecurity, feelings of inadequacy, sexual conflicts.
Gary:See, my wife and I, just a young married couple, we were supposed to enjoy our sexual relationship.
Gary:But here she was, 20 years old, still responding to the emotional damage that was done to her from her father sexually abusing her.
Gary:And as a result of that, even though she loved the Lord, she brought all that rejection into our marriage and began to reject her husband.
Gary:So basically, her father, many years before, sexually abused Sylvia's future husband.
Gary:I became a victim of the second order.
Gary:And every time I speak to an audience, anywhere from 60 to 70% of the audience will raise their hand that there's been some kind of sexual or physical abuse in their background.
Gary:Okay?
Gary:Now that's in churches and Christian crowds.
Gary:Okay?
Gary:So everybody is.
Gary:Absolutely.
Gary:It's sad.
Gary:It's heartbreaking.
Gary:As I began to study the rejection patterns, I was a rejection junkie.
Gary:See, I became a survivor.
Gary:My wife became an escaper.
Gary:Now, I want to say this very cautiously, because I don't want to make your audience angry, but in every marriage, there's a parent and there's a child.
Gary:In every marriage, there's a dominant personality and a passive personality.
Gary:Now, every once in a while, you have a passive person being married to a passive person.
Gary:Well, what happens in a marriage like that?
Gary:Not a whole lot.
Gary:They're both passive.
Gary:Okay, but then when you.
Gary:Every once in a while, you have a power personality.
Gary:The male and the female is a power personality.
Gary:And they're in a battle for control.
Gary:But probably 90 of the time, it's always a passive and a.
Gary:And a dominant person to get married.
Gary:Now, why is that?
Gary:Let me say it like this.
Gary:Can you see my hand, Sean?
Gary:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see, like, opposites attract, then they attack, then they retract.
Gary:Okay, I'll ask many, many times.
Gary:And when I speak to crowds, how many of you, about six months after you got married, woke up one morning and looked at the person laying in bed next to you and said, how did I end up in bed with this person?
Gary:Okay?
Gary:Because almost always.
Gary:Almost always I will hear people say, she's not the same woman that I used to date.
Gary:Before we got married, or he's not the same man I used to date before we got married.
Gary:Yeah, he's the same man.
Gary:Yes, she's the same woman.
Gary:But the problem is you were all just acting on your best behavior.
Gary:Does that all make sense, Sean?
Sean:Oh, absolutely, Gary.
Sean:Absolutely.
Sean:And you know, we see it all the time.
Sean:I've seen it in my own marriage.
Gary:Sure.
Sean:You know, you know, you say, you know, 80%, you know, 80% set by the time that, you know, we're eight years old.
Gary:Right.
Sean:And you know, you'll, you'll know the numbers.
Sean:I don't.
Sean:I've just recently started looking into some of this, but my guess is that 70 or 80 or 90% of adults have experienced something, whether, whether it doesn't necessarily was physical or sexual abuse, but even verbal abuse or even being rejected or abandoned at some time, that would not be considered abuse.
Sean:That sets us all up to have some type of an identity issue that shows up as rejection or abandonment or not feeling good enough or having shame or guilt.
Sean:Most.
Gary:Which is it?
Sean:Most adults, gary?
Gary:Oh, yeah, 100%.
Gary:Welcome to the human race, Sean.
Sean:So you said 100%.
Sean:So 100 means that 100 of marriages have two fault, two.
Gary:100, right.
Gary:100 of the human race have some kind of overt or covert rejection patterns that they carry into their marriage relationship.
Gary:Okay?
Gary:Now bitterness is not a user friendly word, okay?
Gary:People don't go around saying, yeah, I'm full of bitterness.
Gary:But Sylvia and I, we were on our way home from El Paso, Texas, back to Albuquerque, New Mexico.
Gary:That's where our counseling center was.
Gary:New Life Dynamics Christian Counseling Center.
Gary:And I had come to the place where I'm going to file for a divorce.
Gary:And I said, sylvia, I've made a decision.
Gary:I'm going to file for a divorce.
Gary:And she said, what do you mean?
Gary:I said, well, I'm not angry at you, I'm not mad.
Gary:I've just decided I can't live with a woman who has been emotionally damaged the rest of my life.
Gary:I can't do that to myself.
Gary:You're a wonderful human being, but I can't live in the prison that you put yourself in.
Gary:And she said, but I'm not like you.
Gary:And I said, what do you mean you're not like me?
Gary:She said, well, you're always mad, you're always yelling.
Gary:And I thought, yeah, that's me.
Gary:I'm always mad and I'm always yelling.
Gary:Guess what?
Gary:I learned to be mad and I learned to yell when I was a child.
Gary:Now, when I got saved, I became a child of the living God.
Gary:But the negative emotional pattern still controlled me, okay?
Gary:Even though I was complete spiritually, I was still in chaos mentally and emotionally in my soul.
Gary:But I went off to Bible college because that's where good Christians go, you know.
Gary:So anyway, she said, well, I'm not like, I'm not bitter like you.
Gary:And I said, sylvia, you don't like that word bitter, but let me tell you something, you have a very wounded spirit.
Gary:And she said, what do you mean?
Gary:I said, well, when your father sexually abused you, he wounded your spirit.
Gary:And you're very sad in your countenance.
Gary:You're not a joyful human being.
Gary:You're not fun to be around.
Gary:I can't live in this prison you put yourself in.
Gary:And when I said, you've got a very wounded spirit, Sean.
Gary:She burst into tears and she sobbed all the way back to Albuquerque.
Gary:You see, bitterness can be many things.
Gary:And I put some definitions here.
Gary:I want to share this with the audience.
Gary:Do you know someone that you have an inward resentment towards?
Gary:I'll show you someone you have a root of bitterness towards.
Gary:You show me someone that creates anxiety in your life.
Gary:I'll show you someone you have a root of bitterness towards.
Gary:You show me someone that has abandoned you.
Gary:I'll show you someone you have a root of bitterness towards.
Gary:You show me someone that has you avoid being around.
Gary:I'll show you someone you have a root of bitterness towards.
Gary:You show me someone that has created a sense of loss.
Gary:I'll show you someone you have a root of bitterness towards.
Gary:Show me someone that makes you feel guilty when they're around you.
Gary:I'll show you someone that you have a root of bitterness towards.
Gary:See, bitterness rises above the ground in many different forms, depending.
Gary:Does that make sense?
Sean:I never would have thought of it that way before.
Sean:But you, you, you, the way that you shared it, I can see it, you know, every.
Sean:Everything that we can't tolerate in somebody else, right?
Sean:We develop a level of bitterness even if we have an unforgiving spirit.
Gary:Right.
Sean:Still have if there's a.
Sean:If, if there's a gap between us and them, yeah, there's some level of bitterness there, isn't there?
Gary:Right?
Gary:And I gotta tell you, man, I hated my father in law.
Gary:But she said, please don't tell anybody what happened.
Gary:See, the sexual abuse had become the family cheek secret.
Gary:Now the whole family knew it, but nobody in the church knew.
Gary:Now Sylvia's mother, now they're both in heaven.
Gary:Now I hope they're in heaven.
Gary:But anyway, anyway, they were in church.
Gary:They went to a very legalistic fundamentalist church.
Gary:And they were always there Sunday morning, Sunday night and Wednesday night.
Gary:But her mother was very physically abusive.
Gary:When Sylvia was nine years old, her mother beat her so bad she literally could not walk.
Gary:Afterwards, she beat her brother so bad she literally dislocated one of his hips.
Gary:So that's how she was beaten.
Gary:And that day that Sylvia received that horrible beating, she literally had to crawl and hide in her mother's closet in the master bedroom because somebody had knocked on the door.
Gary:Well, guess who it was.
Gary:It was some women from the church because they had come over to their house for some Christian ladies fellowship, praise God.
Gary:And she had just beaten her daughter half to death.
Gary:Now, see, Sylvia could not correlate the relationship with all this physical and mental and verbal abuse that she had received with the message of God in church.
Gary:Okay, why would.
Gary:Yeah, why would she.
Gary:Absolutely.
Gary:Now, Sean, I'm going to say something that's going to shock your audience, okay?
Gary:And I hope you don't shut me off after I'm done saying it.
Gary:But one of the first things I try to do with all my clients is I tried to get them to agree to stop living for the Lord.
Gary:Now, boy, that's almost Antichrist, isn't it?
Gary:That's all you.
Sean:Well enough now to know there's got to be something behind it.
Sean:So speak up.
Gary:Right?
Gary:You remember Paul Harvey?
Gary:Yeah, yeah, the great radio commentator.
Gary:He's saying, now, here's the rest of the story.
Sean:Okay, let's hear the rest of the story.
Gary:I'm going to give the rest of the story.
Gary:Every Christian should stop living for the Lord because frustrated, unhappy Christians live for the Lord.
Gary:But spirit controlled Christians, let the Lord live through them.
Gary:Let me say that again.
Gary:Spirit controlled Christians, let the Lord live through them.
Gary:What are the fruit of the spirit?
Gary:Love, joy, peace, long suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance, balance, self control.
Gary:There is no law against those.
Gary:Okay, and so now I'm going to share a story.
Gary:I'm not your typical, quote Christian counselor.
Gary:I don't focus on people's behavior.
Gary:I focus on their character.
Gary:And I believe that good counseling, good coaching reaches the conscience and does not attack the character.
Gary:And I had this couple come to me years ago and he was involved in an extramarital affair and she was in tears.
Gary:He keeps denying it.
Gary:I know he's seeing her.
Gary:I know he's having sex with her.
Gary:I know.
Gary:And I.
Gary:I just.
Gary:I don't know what to do.
Gary:I just want to die.
Gary:And he just kept denying it.
Gary:So I said, would you please step out in the reception area while I visit with your husband?
Gary:I need some time alone with him.
Gary:And so she did.
Gary:And she got up and I closed the door and I sat down.
Gary:I said, now I'm going to ask you a question and you don't have to answer me, but if you do answer me, please look me in the eyes.
Gary:Don't look at the floor, don't look at the ceiling, don't look over at the walls.
Gary:But looked me in the eyes.
Gary:He said, okay.
Gary:I said, now what you understand before I ask this question.
Gary:You're not in trouble with me.
Gary:I'm not mad at you.
Gary:I don't care if you've been out having sex with elephants.
Gary:I just hope you've been careful, okay?
Gary:And he looked at me, he said, well, I said, so here's my question.
Gary:Who are you having a sexual relationship with?
Gary:And boy, he looked down at the floor and I said, no, look me in the eyes now, are you involved in a sexual affair with another woman?
Gary:And he looked me in the eye.
Gary:He said, yes, I am.
Gary:And then he said, if I go through this counsel, am I going to have to give up my affair?
Gary:And I said, oh, no, no, no, no, not at all.
Gary:Okay.
Gary:I said, stop and think about all the lies you've told to have this affair.
Gary:Stop thinking of all the time and energy that you've spent covering up this affair.
Gary:Stop thinking about all the money that you wasted spended on having this affair.
Gary:I said, you've worked so hard for this affair.
Gary:You deserve the affair.
Gary:Go ahead and have it, I don't care.
Gary:And he looked at me so, and he said, are you a Christian counselor?
Gary:I said, yes, I really am.
Gary:I said, but what you have to understand, the affair is not your problem.
Gary:That's a symptom of the problem.
Gary:If we can identify the underlying problem, then we'll be able to eliminate the conflict.
Gary:Okay?
Gary:So I'm not going to focus on your behavior.
Gary:I'm going to focus on your character.
Gary:I'm going to find out who you are, why you do what you do.
Gary:Now, if you want me to attack your behavior, you need to go see a secular psychiatrist or a secular psychologist or you need to go to a legalistic Christian counselor.
Gary:That's going to tell you to shape up or ship out.
Gary:Okay, but I'm going to, I say I'm going to identify the underlying problem and then when I take your life history, I'm going to isolate the underlying problem.
Gary:I'm going to crawl inside of your soul and your mind, and I'm going to find out what you've gone through that has brought you to this place in your life.
Gary:Then after I've helped you identify the underlying problem and isolate the underlying problem, then I'm going to position you to eliminate the underlying problem.
Gary:No longer go on suffering to your addiction to the negative emotional patterns in your life.
Gary:And you know, Sean, that guy that he responded to the counseling and he got free mentally and emotionally, and he got saved, too, by the way.
Gary:He wasn't a Christian when he came in.
Gary:And their whole marriage turned around, you see, because we focused on what the real issues were, not his behavior.
Gary:Now, I've said a whole lot there.
Gary:I'll be quiet for a minute.
Gary:Okay.
Sean:Well, I, I, I just have a sneaking suspicion that there's an awful lot of folks watching this, that their minds are being opened up.
Sean:Yeah.
Sean:You know, folks don't know this.
Sean:You know, they go to counselors and, you know, every counselor has their own flavor of how to solve the symptom, but you're talking about the root, because we can get rid of symptoms all day long, and they just pop right back up.
Sean:Or, you know, you hear stories of somebody that has a symptom of drinking too much, so they quit drinking, and then they start something else, or.
Gary:Right.
Sean:Having an affair, but they quit the affair and they start something else.
Gary:Right.
Sean:It, because it's, it's coming from the inside.
Sean:So, so I guess my question to you would be, you know, of course, we've mentioned a few things today.
Sean:You know, rejection and shame and guilt and that kind of.
Sean:So do you typically find that it's, it's literally one, two, three things, and they're, they're all related to, like, rejection is the core issue, or are there a hundred things and you have to go in there and find the one thing and treat that well?
Gary:That's, that's a great question, Sean.
Gary:There could be any number of things, okay?
Gary:When I take a client's life history, I have about 88 questions that I ask them.
Gary:And those 88 questions I've designed will focus on in certain things at certain times and certain events in their life that are going to reveal to me what they've been living with, not what they're covering up, but what they've been living with.
Gary:Okay?
Gary:And I tell you what, I counsel some of the wealthiest people in the nation.
Gary:I've counseled some poor people, okay.
Gary:But everybody I've counseled have one thing in common, their rejection junkies.
Gary:And I don't focus on behavior modification.
Gary:I tell folks, if you want to focus on behavior modification, go see a preacher because they're telling you to stop misbehaving.
Gary:I'm not going to tell you to stop your drinking.
Gary:Go ahead and drink yourself in the gutter.
Gary:Okay.
Gary:Until you come to the place where you want to make a change for your mental and emotional well being, nobody can help you.
Gary:Okay.
Gary:I don't care how many drugs you do.
Gary:Enjoy it.
Gary:You're destroying yourself.
Gary:Have fun on your way to death.
Gary:Now, that sounds harsh, doesn't it?
Gary:Okay.
Sean:But it's, It's.
Gary:It's the symptom.
Sean:It's the truth of the symptom.
Sean:Whether we drink or we sleep around or whatever, there's a consequence to it.
Gary:Exactly.
Gary:You know, and so it's just really interesting how people, they become so comfortable in their misery.
Gary:They don't want their misery to be interrupted.
Sean:Yeah.
Sean:Yeah.
Sean:So, Dr.
Sean:Lawrence, would it be okay if we jump.
Sean:We jump around just a little bit.
Sean:So we've really identified the fact that a lot of people, most people, all people, have some level of rejection syndrome.
Gary:Absolutely, yes.
Sean:We find that most marriages struggle with it, whether they know it or not, whether they fight the symptoms, they fight the issue and.
Gary:Right.
Sean:You know, whatever the case is, what if we jump to the other side of the spectrum?
Sean:How do we solve this?
Sean:We recognize that I have.
Sean:Let's just take me.
Sean:I.
Sean:I've got rejection issues.
Sean:I know that.
Sean:I've got some things that have come out in my life.
Gary:Sure.
Sean:As a result of being rejected.
Sean:Okay.
Gary:Right.
Sean:And, and, and so I know that.
Gary:Right.
Sean:How would we take somebody and like your prescription, how do you take somebody through that?
Sean:What's the process?
Sean:I'm just going to ask.
Gary:Okay, Well, I appreciate you asking that.
Gary:Well, first of all, the first thing I do, Sean, is I do it.
Gary:Taylor Johnson Temperament Analysis profile on every client.
Gary:That's.
Gary:It's put out by Psychological publications in California, in Los Angeles.
Gary:It's a series of 180 questions.
Gary:And what it does, it gives me a printout where a person is emotionally.
Gary:I call it my emotional snapshot.
Gary:Okay.
Gary:For an example, I just did a test on a couple.
Gary:He rated very high nervous and depressive.
Gary:She rated high nervous and depressive.
Gary:Immediately.
Gary:Now, they've been married about eight years, and immediately that tells me that both of them went into this marriage nervous and depressed.
Gary:But what do they do now?
Gary:Now they're Beaten up on top of each other.
Gary:So when you get married, you got to understand the dynamics here.
Gary:When you get married, you marry your mate's mother and father.
Gary:When you get married, you marry all their negative rejection patterns.
Gary:You sleep in the same bed with them emotionally, okay?
Gary:And so I have developed a method.
Gary:I thought, you know, I've got to find a way to get free of this bitterness, because it was my bitterness that was keeping me in focus mentally and emotionally with my anger towards my father in law.
Gary:And because of that, I had to reject my wife.
Gary:And because of that, she had to reject me.
Gary:So here we are, we're playing this stupid little game called rejection.
Gary:I reject you before you reject me.
Gary:Oh, no, I'm going to reject you before you reject me.
Gary:So when I do the TJTA profile, it takes about an hour to do a profile.
Gary:The person on themselves.
Gary:That takes me about an hour to do an evaluation.
Gary:Now I've identified the underlying problem.
Gary:Now I know what Sean needs to deal with.
Gary:Now I know where his strengths are and I know where his weaknesses are.
Gary:Sean can't lie to me.
Gary:Sean can't cover up, okay?
Gary:Sean has just revealed himself.
Gary:And I'm a safe person to reveal those weaknesses too, okay?
Gary:I've counseled some of the most successful business people.
Gary:I'll never forget.
Gary:One day I came home after taking the guy's history, and it was like, I don't even know why I go to my office.
Gary:So he said, what's wrong with you?
Gary:I said, well, honey, the guy I'm counseling right now, he owns six automobile automobile dealerships, he's worth $110 million, and he has no intention of doing anything I teach him.
Gary:And I said, she says, well, it sounds like you need to fire him.
Gary:And I said, well, the only reason he's coming in for coaching is so that he can say that he went to counseling in his divorce process and his wife didn't.
Gary:And so I fired him as my client right there and then I said, I'm not wasting any more time with him because he had no desire to deal with the issue.
Gary:And.
Gary:But it's a beautiful thing when you see a man and a woman take all their mental, emotional garbage from the past and wrap it up in a bag and throw it in the trash and say, I'm free from the past.
Gary:Thank God, I'm free now.
Gary:It's a process, Sean.
Gary:Once I do their TGA profile, then I schedule a life history.
Gary:That's a four hour session, okay?
Gary:I'm going to Crawl inside their soul, mentally and emotionally.
Gary:And I'm going to find out what roads they've traveled on what good things and what bad things they've gone through in their life.
Gary:I've got key questions.
Gary:Now, I'm not a psychologist, I'm not a psychiatrist, okay?
Gary:I don't claim to be and I don't want to be.
Gary:Unfortunately, most, I shouldn't say most people, but a large percentage of those in the healing arts of psychiatry, psychology and Christian counseling, a large percentage of them have unresolved issues themselves.
Gary:And the only reason they're in the field of healing on a mental and emotional level is because it creates a greater sense of significance for them.
Gary:They feel more valuable even though they haven't dealt with their baggage yet.
Gary:And I didn't want to be one of those counselors.
Gary:I didn't want to be one of those people to practice on my clients.
Gary:Okay?
Gary:Now, after we take their history, I put them through what I call the emotional surgery.
Gary:The Bible says the word of God is quick and powerful, sharper than any two edged sword piercing asunder under soul and spirit and the joints of the morrow.
Gary:See, the word of God will separate that which is mental and emotional and spiritual.
Gary:That's why I call it the emotional surgery.
Gary:We've got to separate that which you can't see.
Gary:We've got to separate that which you can't touch.
Gary:It's not like an open heart surgery, it's an emotional surgery.
Sean:Okay?
Gary:Now they respond to that.
Gary:And probably about 60% of my clients respond.
Gary:The other 35, 40%, they're so addicted to their misery, they see where they are.
Gary:And I let everyone, my clients know that because I know what I teach from the word of God.
Gary:Where see, the two tools that I depend on in my coaching is the ministry of the Holy Spirit and the ministry of God's word.
Gary:Okay.
Gary:Those are powerful, powerful surgical tools, aren't they?
Gary:So I'll be quiet.
Gary:I'm sorry, I didn't mean to talk so much.
Sean:Oh, I'm eating it up.
Sean:And I tell you what, I've been doing this.
Sean:I've been, I've been, I've worked with just like not as many as you probably.
Sean:I mean, I've literally taught thousands of people.
Sean:And so in, in, in, in interacting with them, I've discovered that the folks that follow me, oftentimes the things that I'm engrossed in and excited about, they are too.
Sean:Okay, Right.
Sean:So.
Sean:So I believe that I'm drawing into this.
Sean:My tribe is too.
Sean:So I'm.
Sean:I'm gonna.
Sean:I'm just gonna push in just a little bit here.
Sean:So one of the things that, you know, this is in the counseling field, in the psychology field, et cetera, et cetera, even Christian psychologists, and even, you know, they'll have the Christian faith, and they may even use some Bible, but they're.
Sean:They're generally working with psychological principles or counselor principles.
Sean:And, you know, it might take them a year to three years to kind of sort through some of that emotional stuff, and then they're not even sure if it's solid.
Sean:Are you telling me that you're using primarily the word of God, specific verses out of the word of God?
Gary:Oh, yeah.
Sean:Combined with the Holy Spirit being there, and you're solving these rejection and abandonment, core wound issues, right, with the word of God?
Sean:Is that what you're telling me, Gary?
Gary:100.
Gary:I couldn't do without the Word of God.
Gary:What basis of truth do we have in the beginning was the Word.
Gary:Nothing's changed.
Gary: This is: Gary: got saved, which was back in: Gary:And for the first time in my young life, I heard the gospel of Jesus Christ preached.
Gary:And I went forward and accepted Christ as my savior.
Gary:And when I got saved, here's what said I was saved.
Gary:I got saved in a very legalistic, conservative church.
Gary:Now, her.
Gary:Now that you're saying, brother Lawrence, stop your drinking.
Gary:And I thought, well, okay.
Gary:So I stopped drinking.
Gary:Okay, now that you're saved, brother Lord, stop your smoking.
Gary:Okay?
Gary:I don't.
Gary:I kind of like smoking.
Gary:And so I.
Gary:I had a battle with that.
Gary:And then I heard, now that you're saved, brother Lawrence, give up sex.
Gary:And I thought, now, whoa, wait a minute.
Gary:Come on, you're getting too close here.
Gary:Okay, you see, it was.
Gary:Stop this, stop that, stop this, stop that.
Gary:No one ever taught me what I'm speaking to you about, Sean.
Gary:No one ever taught me that I was trying unity.
Gary:No one ever taught me that my soul was the residence of my mind and my emotions.
Gary:And if I could get rid of the conflict between my mind and my emotions, then the spirit of God could have control over my soul.
Gary:Okay?
Gary:One of my favorite verses of scripture is, let the peace of God rule your heart.
Gary:And that word rule means to control.
Gary:Let the peace of God control your heart.
Gary:Unfortunately, a large percentage of Christian people are not at peace with God.
Gary:They don't have the peace of God now.
Gary:They're saved, they're on their way to heaven, but they're barely making it through this life with any joy at all.
Gary:And I mean, my goodness, look at the anger and the bitterness in our national politics.
Gary:Would you say there's a little bit of bitterness out there and that's just.
Sean:A reflection of, of the population?
Sean:It's a reflection of the bitterness that's in the population.
Gary:Yeah, right on.
Gary:Absolutely.
Gary:I agree with that.
Gary:100.
Gary:So you know, good counseling reaches the conscience and does not attack the, the character.
Gary:Okay?
Gary:I don't care how bad a person's been.
Gary:I refuse to focus on that.
Gary:If they want to focus on, they need to go somewhere else.
Gary:You see, I made some commitments to myself showing years ago.
Gary:Number one, I will not cancel in the evenings or on weekends.
Gary:If they want to see Dr.
Gary:G, they're going to come to my office Monday through Friday.
Gary:Okay?
Gary:Just like to go to the family doctor.
Gary:Number two, I'm not going to compromise on truth to earn a dollar.
Gary:Okay?
Gary:If you don't like what I teach, I'm so sorry for you.
Gary:God bless your hearts.
Gary:But I'm going to teach what I believe.
Gary:And I believe that genuine truth spawns genuine freedom.
Gary:So it's a process.
Gary:Now after we identify and isolate and eliminate the underlying conflict, then I go into rebuilding their lives.
Gary:For example, a marriage that's been in shambles.
Gary:Why are most marriages damaged?
Gary:Well, it's because the husband never been taught how to love a wife.
Gary:And if he has been taught how to love wife, the wife hasn't been taught how to receive that love.
Gary:Okay, I say it like this.
Gary:A man's ability to love his wife is the overflow of his own self esteem.
Gary:Now let me say that again.
Gary:A man's ability to love his wife is the overflow of his own self esteem.
Gary:I didn't have a positive self image.
Gary:I was still tap dancing on the tabletops of other people's lives to gain acceptance and create a sense of value for myself.
Gary:How in the world could I love my wife who was an introverted, thumb sucking, withdrawn personality?
Gary:Okay?
Gary:I was too busy being sorry for myself.
Gary:Well, when you're busy feeling sorry for yourself and you're having a pity party, nobody wants to join your party, let alone be married to you.
Sean:Dr.
Sean:Lawrence, this is brilliant.
Sean:I'm looking at the clock and if we're not careful, I could listen to you all day long.
Gary:Well, let's do another interview sometime.
Gary:Sean.
Sean:That sounds, that sounds good folks.
Sean:Can get your book.
Sean:Your book's the place for folks to go, right?
Sean:They get your book, they'll get on the starting on the path.
Sean:Rejection junkies.com, is that correct right now?
Gary:And let me say this, if they go to my website, on the homepage there's a question, are you a rejection junkie?
Gary:That's a quiz.
Gary:And it doesn't cost anything for them to take that quiz.
Gary:And if they will mark the rejection things that I have listed there, it will come to my inbox and I will respond to them.
Gary:If they put their telephone number in there, I'll call them and we will schedule an absolutely free, no strings attached, 30 minute evaluation of that quiz.
Sean:Wow.
Gary:And also they can order my book Rejection Junkies at my website.
Sean:Well, folks, those of you that are watching me, whether you're, you're listening on a podcast or you're on YouTube or you're my followers, I've had a delightful time with Dr.
Sean:Lawrence and, and, and without having read the book, I can recommend this man for everything you've heard before us.
Sean:You know, we've had, you know, we've had just an incredible open conversation about some things that go against the grain of psychology and counseling and all of that.
Sean:And we know these verses are in the Bible.
Sean:So often we look at the Bible for a legalistic answer to everything, right?
Sean:Do this, do this, don't do this, do that.
Sean:This man has cut to the core of the emotional components that are in the Bible and he's found out where they are and he's pulled them out.
Sean:And I'm looking forward to having possibly another opportunity to talk with you, Dr.
Sean:Lawrence.
Gary:And Sean, Sean, before we go, you know, I say I don't focus on person's behavior.
Gary:Well, Jesus didn't either.
Gary:Remember the woman at the well, he said, the man you're living with right now is not your husband.
Gary:Jesus didn't say, you know what?
Gary:I'm not going to talk to you until you stop living like that.
Gary:I'm not going to have anything to do with you until you clean up your life, lady.
Gary:No, Jesus just loved her.
Gary:He talked to her so many times.
Gary:Christianity wear such a self righteous robe, nobody can see the real beauty in it.
Gary:I'm sorry, I just had to add that.
Sean:No, I agree with you, I agree with you, I really do.
Sean:I agree with you.
Sean:And you know, a lot of folks can't see it.
Sean:They don't see it.
Gary:Right.
Gary:You know, God, that's because, that's because they were comfortable in their misery.
Gary:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Gary:Please don't bother me.
Gary:I'm too busy being miserable.
Sean:Or we think there's no other way.
Sean:Right?
Gary:Right.
Sean:We think there's no other way.
Sean:Or we think that if there is a way, it's going to take five years.
Gary:Right.
Sean:You know, an amazing level of asceticism to get there.
Gary:Right.
Sean:We don't realize that we can.
Sean:I.
Sean:I don't always bring this to work, but we don't realize that the answer is right in here.
Gary:Right.
Sean:Like you said, we have to divide it.
Sean:We have to allow it to be a sword that divides us and separates things and.
Gary:Right.
Sean:I've just.
Sean:I.
Sean:I just want to thank you.
Sean:Wish we had all day, but I just tell you, I just want to thank you for how you've poured your soul into this time right here.
Sean:I think you're doing a beautiful work out there.
Sean:And I tell you what, I'll just say this.
Sean:I usually don't say this.
Sean:I hope we get an awful lot of views to this just so people can get the message.
Sean:And maybe if they're having trouble in their family or they're even just having trouble personally, if they've never dealt with these things, that, that they'll dig deep, that they'll get your book, maybe they'll contact you, and they'll be able to get part of their life back, the part they don't usually find in church.
Gary:Yeah.
Gary:Sean, you've been a very gracious host, and I appreciate the honor and the opportunity to be your guest and to.
Gary:To speak to your audience and thank you for everything you're doing for the family of God, my friend.
Gary:You're.
Sean:You're welcome, God.
Sean:God's a good God, and he's placing things on my heart as he has you.
Sean:Would it be okay if I close this time in a little word of prayer?
Gary:Absolutely.
Gary:Go right ahead.
Sean:Right.
Sean:Father, I come before you right now and I.
Sean:I just thank you for this hour that I've been able to spend with Dr.
Sean:Gary Lawrence and that now my tribe and others that they show this to are going to get to.
Sean:To see some of this gold is right out of your word.
Sean:Father, I'm just so grateful for this man.
Sean:I'm grateful for the impact that he's had on me just in these last 55 or 60 minutes.
Sean:Father, I ask that you do two things.
Sean:Number one, that you would bless Dr.
Sean:Gary Lawrence in the work that he does in these coming years, that.
Sean:That you will.
Sean:You'll bless him, that you'll guide him, that you'll direct him, that you'll just continue to pour your blessing out.
Sean:And Father, secondly, for everybody that watches this, that hears the sound of our voice, whether they get the book or not, whether they call Dr.
Sean:Gary or not, that everybody that watches this, their life would be changed, that they would set themselves on a path to say, hey, where is this material in the word of God?
Sean:How can I get this soul healing?
Sean:How can I be healed from the wound of rejection?
Sean:And so, Father, I just ask that you touch every single person that's taken the time to listen to this, that their lives would be changed and blessed as well.
Sean:We pray in Christ's name, thankfully.
Sean:Amen.
Gary:Amen.
Gary:Sean, thank you.
Gary:God bless you, buddy.
Sean:God bless you.
Sean:And thank you again.
